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Old 11-01-2007, 11:46 PM
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Warner Bros let their Blu-Ray license "expire"?



Word is getting around that WB let their Blu-Ray license expire last night. The cost is a mere 40k so I doubt money was the issue. As many of you know by know, WB will make a decision this quarter as to which to jump, HD-DVD or Blu-Ray. To be frank, the comments from Dan Silverberg at WB can be taken either way but were also taken out of context by a Blu-Ray loving reporter. So beyond the interpretation of recent WB comments, let's look at the real reasons WB would choose HD-DVD over Blu-Ray.

1. WB has consistently put more support behind HD-DVD than Blu-Ray. Batman Begins and V for Vendetta are perfect examples of titles released on HD-DVD months before Blu-Ray. The Matrix is still ONLY available on HD-DVD because the Blu-Ray player profiles did not have mandatory support the advanced features of PiP and True HD. These features are mandatory on ALL HD-DVD stand-alone players.

2. Cost of Manufacturing - Blu-Ray yields are bad. Apparently 2 or 3 of 10 are good. The cost per disk is also high. Blu-Ray is over 5.00 per disk vs 1.00 to 1.50 for HD-DVD.

3. Cost of implementing interactive features such as PiP (overlay for commentary or tech specs/GPS like Miami Vice or Fast and Furious Tokyo Drift) and Web Interactivity is much cheaper. To program these features for Blu-Ray one must use a programmer who MUST write near a hundred lines or more of code. To implement HDi which is similar to HTML, one does not need to be a programmer which means less cost per disk.

4. Incompatibilities - Many early adopters of Blu-Ray will have issues with playback in the future due to Blu-Ray hardware being very different from manufacture to manufacture because the specs were not mandatory till TODAY. New players that are released after today will probably be ok but old players could see unexpected problems. Beware..

5. HD-DVD Player Price - We all know that player prices are dropping like crazy. Tomorrow the A2 can be had for 98.00 and you can buy the A2 from Amazon, Best Buy, Circuit City and Walmart (starting Saturday) for under 200.00. LOW PRICES is ALWAYS the beginning of mass adoption and with most consumers not taking full advantage of their HDTV's, these cheap players are the perfect opportunity to acquire the latest and greatest for cheap.

6. WB has already said that Home Players sales are the sales that REALLY matter and that PS3 title sales cannot be predicted because you do not know how many PS3 owners will buy movies. When someone purchases an Toshiba HD-DVD or 360 HD-DVD Player you know those consumers WILL buy movies or they would NOT have made the purchase at all. The PS3 is a game machine first then Blu-Ray Player second. For Blu-Ray to make a huge dent with PS3 consumers would need to purchase more than one (PS3) or you will have people fighting over watching movies or playing games (in many households, not all). Nielson and other stat trackers do not count the PS3 as part of the Home Player sales.

Now, everyone is locked on the 2 to 1 software lead Blu-Ray has over HD-DVD. This means nothing when the format is FAR more expensive to produce content for and with the PS3 the Blu-Ray camps has like a 10+ to 1 hardware lead when it comes to players. With such a large hardware lead their lead should be much more but it is NOT as the PS3 is not really producing the numbers these studios expected. In fact, if it were not for the PS3, Blu-Ray would be dead ALREADY!

Considering all of these factors and reasons for WB to side with HD-DVD I would be VERY shocked if WB choose Blu-Ray over HD-DVD. I could be totally wrong but then again, logic generally prevails.
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Last edited by species8472 : 11-02-2007 at 03:23 AM.
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Old 11-05-2007, 12:55 AM
bahace bahace is offline
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$5 per blu ray disc??? NOOOOOO do some research before you just start making up numbers!

source: Blu-ray replication vs HD DVD replication costs revealed » Blu-ray, HD DVD, DVD info at WesleyTech.com
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Old 11-05-2007, 02:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bahace View Post



$5 per blu ray disc??? NOOOOOO do some research before you just start making up numbers!

source: Blu-ray replication vs HD DVD replication costs revealed » Blu-ray, HD DVD, DVD info at WesleyTech.com

Those numbers are correct (as I have seen them MANY times before) but DO NOT factor in the poor YIELDS of the format. If you count the poor yields, your COST per disk is way UP. Naturally studios do not discuss this but I know someone who "builds and runs" duplication facility. This is how I found out about the cost. DON'T ever assume I make something (not even cool).. Remember, I WORK in STORAGE...
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Old 11-05-2007, 02:07 AM
totalownership totalownership is offline
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I'm sorry man but that article reeks of hack. I'll be getting a PS3 as soon as it's relevant to me so the formats don't make a difference really from my perspective. I'm a fanboy of my wallet. lol. But reading that , and then the author's responses, reminds me of email spam, at first glance it ALMOST looks legit till you take a second look. lol
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Old 11-05-2007, 04:37 AM
bahace bahace is offline
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Originally Posted by species8472 View Post
Remember, I WORK in STORAGE...


Bill Lumbergh: Milt, we're gonna need to go ahead and move you downstairs into storage B. We have some new people coming in, and we need all the space we can get. So if you could just go ahead and pack up your stuff and move it down there, that would be terrific, OK?
Milton Waddams: Excuse me, I believe you have my stapler...
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Old 11-05-2007, 05:17 AM
gallandro gallandro is offline
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Originally Posted by bahace View Post



$5 per blu ray disc??? NOOOOOO do some research before you just start making up numbers!

source: Blu-ray replication vs HD DVD replication costs revealed » Blu-ray, HD DVD, DVD info at WesleyTech.com
Ummm. he's talking 50GB dual layer discs, which weslytech on mentions small runs costing .50 per disc more than HD-DVD. But this report has generally been dismissed as not being entirely accurate as it fails to mention yields and the replication house he's sighting are never divulged (i.e., are these Sony duplication houses, or is Sony offsetting the costs somehow).

Yancy

Last edited by gallandro : 11-05-2007 at 05:20 AM.
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Old 11-05-2007, 05:19 PM
whyser whyser is offline
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Originally Posted by species8472 View Post
Those numbers are correct (as I have seen them MANY times before) but DO NOT factor in the poor YIELDS of the format. If you count the poor yields, your COST per disk is way UP. Naturally studios do not discuss this but I know someone who "builds and runs" duplication facility. This is how I found out about the cost. DON'T ever assume I make something (not even cool).. Remember, I WORK in STORAGE...
I'm sorry but the current yield rates for Blu-Ray is about the same as DVD.

Quote:
But considering that the three plants have an aggregate monthly capacity of
21 million BDs, we’ve already come a long way since BD was introduced and both the protective coating and the second layer were contentious issues. Yield rates (the percentage of acceptable product in a production run) have risen steadily since format introduction. Interestingly, single-layer BD-25 discs have reached a yield equivalent to DVD production; surprisingly, that yield is only 85%. Dual-layer BDs are catching up, currently hovering at the 79% level.
Source: Blu-Ray Disc Make Progress: Oct 8, 2007
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Old 11-05-2007, 05:26 PM
whyser whyser is offline
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Originally Posted by species8472 View Post

3. Cost of implementing interactive features such as PiP (overlay for commentary or tech specs/GPS like Miami Vice or Fast and Furious Tokyo Drift) and Web Interactivity is much cheaper. To program these features for Blu-Ray one must use a programmer who MUST write near a hundred lines or more of code. To implement HDi which is similar to HTML, one does not need to be a programmer which means less cost per disk.

4. Incompatibilities - Many early adopters of Blu-Ray will have issues with playback in the future due to Blu-Ray hardware being very different from manufacture to manufacture because the specs were not mandatory till TODAY. New players that are released after today will probably be ok but old players could see unexpected problems. Beware..
As for point #3, yes, it requires a programmer to implement BD-J features such as the Bonus view. But don't you think that this is only a VERY temporary problem (and a bit moot I might add). How long do you think it will take for a programmer to create a set of standard libraries for handling things such as PiP? Once these things are set, it's only a matter of copy + pasting, which does NOT require a skilled programmer to do.

Incompatibilities exist in both HDi and BD-J, if the specs for HD DVD were so finalized, why do the players required so many firmware upgrades in order to play certain discs? Incompatibilities exist for both formats.
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Old 11-05-2007, 09:08 PM
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species8472 species8472 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whyser View Post
As for point #3, yes, it requires a programmer to implement BD-J features such as the Bonus view. But don't you think that this is only a VERY temporary problem (and a bit moot I might add). How long do you think it will take for a programmer to create a set of standard libraries for handling things such as PiP? Once these things are set, it's only a matter of copy + pasting, which does NOT require a skilled programmer to do.

Incompatibilities exist in both HDi and BD-J, if the specs for HD DVD were so finalized, why do the players required so many firmware upgrades in order to play certain discs? Incompatibilities exist for both formats.
I agree with you on the incompatibilities on both formats but I believe a lot of those are based around authoring issues. The Blu-Ray issue of concern is how the older players with deal with new features. I suppose we need to wait for the first PiP title from Fox in Q1 to really see. My real concern is the drastic changes to the spec after nearly a year and half..
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Old 11-05-2007, 09:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whyser View Post
I'm sorry but the current yield rates for Blu-Ray is about the same as DVD.



Source: Blu-Ray Disc Make Progress: Oct 8, 2007

Not that I dispute your data but I was relying on someone who works with the stuff first hand (sorry I cannot say). Yields improving are expected and maybe his feedback was a little dated (not by far considering the word is not that old). Either way one is still more expensive than the other.. And you guys love to make a deal over a small details..
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